As far as the Nazi connections go, I did think it was rather over-the-top to make that connection in this documentary – it didn’t help his case. Nevertheless, the facts are true: Darwinism (let’s not forget the subtitle to Origin of Species – why is it never published with it anymore?) had important roots in Nazi Germany. That is indisputable. I wish that was in another documentary because I think it casts a shadow on the documentary as a whole.

One thing I did enjoy about the documentary was the focus on worldview, which seems to be an important issue. Dawkins made it clear the actual origin of all things was unknown. Scientists in his camp answer the question of Creator in an atheistic way, which leads their theories in one direction, while scientists in the other camp answer the question of Creator in a theist way, which leads their theories in another direction. I thought Stein raised a good point – what makes one group scientists and another group ‘idiots’? It seems to be where they begin.

You can leave my mistake up there – I’m sure I’ll make plenty more =)

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David Berlinski is also a mathematician.

And yes, he is an agnostic.

Hence, he is not trying to just “prove the Bible”.

==================

SPYRAL wrote:
Evolution = no meaning in life + no hope + no ethics …

One other thing: Stein does not need to try too hard to make this equation obvious because Professor Will Provine totally makes it for him! Check out his very frank interviews again if you don’t know what I mean … chilling stuff.

vM!

PS – Yes, I took out the “Hitler” part of the “equation” because
A) I don’t think that was Stein’s main point and
B) Provine does not suggest it, either

I’m flattered that you mistook my crappy writing for something he put together, but yeah this one’s all me.

Of course the film didn’t come right out and say “atheists are just like Hitler” – that would be scandalous and inappropriate! They just used a lot of imagery of Nazi Germany and they did say that believing in evolution is what lead to the Holocaust (and abortions). They interviewed Richard Weikart, the author of “From Darwin to Hitler”, who shared his belief that the supposed connection between evolution and atheism lead to murder, torture and other atrocities. The point they were trying to make was that evolution is wrong because it takes god out of the picture, and once you do that suddenly everything is allowable in science. Obviously, I think this is specious reasoning.

I had to look up who David Berlinski is because I didn’t recognize the name. He’s the “reclining guy” from the movie – every time he’s shown he’s lounging in his seat. Apparently he’s agnostic. Even though I think he seems like an ass, I don’t know enough about him to determine whether his ideas have merit. My first impression seems to be that he likes to play devil’s advocate rather than present his own ideas (regarding evolution at least). I’ll have to read up on him, thanks for bringing him up!

It seems to me that it was put in to show where they think that believing in evolution leads. They say it leads to atheism, and that the two together led to the holocaust, with the added implication that our acceptance of evolution (and hence atheism) could very well lead to a repeat of those kinds of atrocities.

Of course they ignore the fact that Hitler always identified himself as a Catholic and was aided by Christians of many denominations who had already spent centuries vilifying and persecuting Jews, but I guess that would get in the way of the neat little package of evolution and atheism being the clear culprits.

Another probable reason for including the Nazi sections, as is almost certain for the constant allusions to the Berlin Wall and the playing up of Big Bad Secular Science vs Poor Little Creation Science (AKA Intelligent Design), was that they were attempting to get viewers on their side and angry at the manufactured injustice they portray through emotional equivocation of these things.

I understand that this is common in documentaries with agendas, but that doesn’t stop it from being annoying when you’re on the receiving end and you don’t think your attacker’s position is justified.

As for David Berlinski, he is a secular Jew who says he’s agnostic. He is also extremely arrogant and smug, seemingly without reason. He bashes Dawkins for talking about philosophy (which Berlinski has a degree in and Dawkins doesn’t), but he doesn’t see the hypocrisy in then talking about evolution as if he’s an expert when he seems to have a very poor education on the subject.

A post I saw about him, David Berlinski, King Of Poseurs seems to have a decent bit about his background and his lack of anything to be so smug about.

I can only assume that with your question (what “religion” is David Berlinski?) you’re really trying to suggest that Intelligent Design is something other than Creationism in disguise, but if you actually look at the evidence from ID’s history, you’ll see that that’s exactly what it is.

They may be trying to make it something more, and in the unlikely case that there is something to it, I hope they do manage to get good scientists working on it for some reason other than to prove the Bible’s account of creation right.

The problem is, like Spyral said, the movie did not really present any evidence to show that ID should be taken seriously or that anything useful has come out of it. So far they have failed miserably at putting out anything but attacks on evolution which from what I’ve seen have been easily refuted or baseless.

By the way Vocab, do you want me to correct your mistake for you and delete your second post, or just leave it alone?

Oops, I meant Spyral, not Kazz.
Silly thing, won’t let me edit myself so
I can fix my mistakes …

vm

I think this statement of yours fits the definition of false information more so than Stein’s film … really, Kazz. The movie said no such thing.

QUOTE:
Oh, foolish science. You can do nothing that religion can’t best.

I am just curious … what “religion” is David Berlinski?

vocab